Heres the place to talk about Fish in general

Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:51 am

I have been reading Fish's blogs about his tour around Europe. Always brilliantly written.

This week he has been writing about some if his German concerts and he has mentioned that he has noticed some people in his German audiences walking out when he is performing songs from the High Wood suite.

I hadn't considered the impact that the High Wood would have on a non British audience. How do people on the forum feel when they hear these songs ?
Has Fish given a very British view or do you feel it's just a factual historical description. Has he given an accurate and sympathetic account or has he offended anyone,?
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:50 am

As being German it was and is not always easy speaking to people of the older generation in France, the Netherlands, Belgium or Poland. I remember being to France with my grandmother visiting the soldier grave where my grandfather died. My grandmother was in tears and full of negative emotions regarding the people and the French nation she believed were responsible for the death of her beloved husband. My thoughts, even as a kid, were different. I thought even at this time: what a senseless and evil war. I never looked on the sides or nations people died. To me they were just sons, fathers, friends, human beings, no matter if French or German.

That is the way Fish talks about the topic. Fish is always giving a very objective, neutral view, looking on the pain and the suffering on all sides of the war. I have never seen him point a finger on a nation or their people. When he points a finger then it is towards the people who enforce the war, not minding which nation they are.

I can imagine that Fishs notices are pure coincidence or it is due to the fact that the songs are new material which is not familiar to some people in the audience. Nobody wants to miss a a song like Freaks or the medley, you just get your beer during a song which you think you can afford to miss. Another explanation is that some people are offended or shocked by the projections on the video screen. As being a paramedic I am not easily to shoc by visual horror. My girlfriend got hardened during some fetal-tremoring bloody mostrous Iron Maiden concerts. But some people more sensitive than myself might get shocked from viewing original footage of dieing soldiers or body parts on a battlefield.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:57 am

I hadn't heard that some fans were walking out during High Wood. :? - Being British, perhaps I'm not one to comment, but I hadn't regarded the suite as being particularly pro-British/anti-German in any way shape or form. We all know that Fish has a very strong affection for Germany. - Surely it is more about the futility of war, the human sacrifice, the bravery, the fear and the waste? I don't see why certain members of a German audience would take issue with that. Especially when it applies to your average soldier on both sides of the war.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:59 pm

what a senseless and evil war.

futility of war


The High Wood has made me think about the complete pointlessness of war. Wars only ever achieve death, destruction, sadness, bitterness and resentment. Why has mankind still not learnt the lessons from so many wars ?

When I was in hospital at the weekend I shared a ward with an 80 year old man. He did his National Service in the 1950s and he ended up having to go and fight in the Korean War. A war that until 3 days ago I knew nothing about. Hundreds of thousands of young men from the USA, Europe and other countries had to go and fight in a war halfway around the world that had nothing to do with them.

Even now soldiers are sent to fight pointless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq etc. Wars that achieve nothing except loss of life, destruction, mistrust and resentment.

What positive things have ever been achieved from wars and killing people ?

Even today in the news European governments are discovering that the United States has been spying on millions of people's phone calls for many years. So even supposed friends cannot trust each other. Where could this mistrust lead to ?

In the United States everyone has the legal right to own and carry a gun ??? Why ? Supposedly to defend themselves against other people who carry guns?
Countries want to be able to arm themselves with nuclear weapons ??? Why ????

I know I am making this topic into something potentially bigger but why hasn't mankind learnt the lessons of history.

Music brings us together. It doesnt have boundaries. We want to be friends. We want, peace, love, trust and friendship and yet at the same time politicians, armies, terrorists want us to live in fear.....

This is what the High Wood make me think of. This is what Fugazi and Forgotten Sons makes me think of..............

Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:07 pm

Interessting aspect. Very philosophical. I have to be careful writing on such a topic in a foreign language. I do not want to hit a wrong tone because of my language skills.

War is nature. Fighting is nature. War is darwinism. Survive of the strongest. We wer not there, where we are without fighting. Animals fight by using their horns, claws, whatever. We were intelligent enough to invent bullets and explosives. What we do is fighting for ressources, money sometimes pure power and mastery. Like animals. Like nature. Sad but true.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:14 pm

But can a war be just if it is borne out of defence? - Many would agree that WW1 was a futile conflict, but WW2? :? - Where would we be now if that would have panned out differently? :? - Loss of life on any side is a terrible and regrettable thing,...but some wars are not pointless.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:19 pm

peter0027 wrote:Interessting aspect. Very philosophical. I have to be careful writing on such a topic in a foreign language. I do not want to hit a wrong tone because of my language skills.

War is nature. Fighting is nature. War is darwinism. Survive of the strongest. We wer not there, where we are without fighting. Animals fight by using their horns, claws, whatever. We were intelligent enough to invent bullets and explosives. What we do is fighting for ressources, money sometimes pure power and mastery. Like animals. Like nature. Sad but true.


It is very sad.
I agree that survival is a basic physiological need in all animals and I understand the need to protect our homes, our families, our freedom and our existence....however there seems to be a huge difference between that basic need and wars built on greed, cultural differences, politics, hatred and indoctrination.
I believe that the huge majority of people do not want to fight with anyone. We are almost taught to hate people. I have met people from all over the world from different backgrounds, cultures and religions and everyone is friendly and respectful. All those people that end up going to fight in a war...do they hate the people they are trying to kill. Probably not. They are fighting because politicians have told them to.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:52 pm

Interesting thread. I makes me wonder how Fish or Marillion fans in Northern Ireland react to Forgotten Sons?

WWI was nearly 100 years ago. It surprises me that people (German or otherwise) would still be so sensitive to images and words concerning a conflict that their grandfathers or great-grandfathers were involved in that they would walk out of a concert. Especially if they are Fish fans. Surely they knew the subject matter of his new album? :? :shock:

As far as the rest of this thread goes, relating to war and human nature.... I'd rather not get involved. War is horrible, but sometimes it can be justified. Although whether the families of the dead feel the same, I can't comment. :(

Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:31 am

Conan wrote: WWI was nearly 100 years ago...


100 years is not so long a period when remembering bad things and memories. In my country WWI is not so sensitive thing, but we had a short civil war in 1918 and it still wakes very strong emotions especially in those parts of the country where the war was worst. So in that light I can understand some reactions if it concerns one's late relatives but in the other hand I can't understand if someone walks out of the concert, because you probably know what to expect if you have bought a ticket to this show. I would like to believe that in this case it has nothing to do about the songs' subject. But you know, "Lest we forget" concerns many things.
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Re: Reaction to the High Wood

Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:58 am

I don't think Fish is pro or against a nation:he has related the facts without taking part for or against!
Marillion had the same "problem" with the song "gaza" from the last album:it has created a very strong debate :?
8-)
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