Heres the place to talk about Fish in general

Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish songs

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:15 am

Hello again :D another emotionally charged post by me :lol:

Now, like most people at the time I was upset by the split when it happened. After the initial hopes of a make up became futile that then turned into excitement that we may end up with 2 fabulous groups to listen to rather than the one.

One night I was lying on my bed listening to Tommy Vance purr his way through the Friday rock show when a track came on that was fantastic, it bounced along and the vocals were stunning a catchy guitar riff. I pulled my notepad towards me ( for the youngsters this was infact an A4 lined pad and a biro not a galaxy tablet ) as I liked to make a note of music I hadn't heard before. 'That was Hooks in you by Marillion' gravelled Tommy. What followed was 10 minutes of oscillating emotions - I'd liked the track but it wasn't 'Marillion' to me . Marillion to me wasn't 3min50 seconds of ABACAB music. there were hints of a change in style with CAS which I'd presumed was what had fuelled the split but to me this was a country mile away from 'The Web'.

Time passed and the two albums came out - Vigil and Seasons end . Loved them both in their own way - found it interesting that Mark Wilkinson had stuck with Fish and to me then , as it still is now I saw Fish continuation of the original spirit of Marillion.

That view was further reinforced by the gigs. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the Marillion gigs as well and followed them up to and including the Brave tour before losing my way with them a bit. Later on bought Marbles which was good.

But it always came back to Fish and his music, not saying I loved all the stuff but there was always something on an album that shone.

Yesterday on flicking through youtube of live shows i happened across a recent performance of 'Script' by a now older and considerably more portly Marillion. Steves voice holding up well despite looking more Micky Flannagan now than the lithe chap I saw in white gloves throwing subwoofers around.

But, it just felt so so wrong - those words from his mouth jarred something in me. Its daft I know considering the song was also written by 3 chaps stood behind him but I could only bring myself to watch half of it.

Am I being sentimentally stupid or doesd anyone else feel like this? Saw they also did MSH and Garden Party on that tour

Bizzarely out of all the bands and artists i have followed in my life I think I probably only feel this way about Marillion/Fish
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Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:09 pm

Probably just me :D stupid soppy git. I just get the impression Fish pours a lot of himself into his music and lyrics. Over the years we have all vicariously developed an intimate relationship with the man and his music, he is the storyteller. To hear it spoken by someone else just didn't feel right.

Its ok I'll double the dose or something and I'm sure I'll feel fine in the morning ;)
Thanked: 1

Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:13 pm

sussexsaint wrote:Probably just me :D stupid soppy git.


I don't think so, I believe I know what you mean. I gave up following the "new Marillion" after their second album and didn't catch up later. I have avoided their versions of Fish-era material, so I can't say anything about it but strangely enough even the thought feels odd to me. :D
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Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:55 pm

Well, there are fans that follow Marillion and want to hear the classic Marillion songs. I wouldn't say it's wrong per se - but you know that you're getting a very different version to the one that Fish would sing.

Oddly enough, Marillion's current versions of F-era songs are basically musically identical, but the melody and delivery sometimes changes as Hoggarth is singing. Conversely Fish's interpretations nowadays tend to be musically different through the arrangement and performance. You'd think it would be the other way around!

It's always a crowd pleaser to belt out some of the older numbers for Marillion and Fish. I think the only real issue is that there's been a sense (up until recently at the last convention) that Hogarth wasn't putting the effort into performing the F-era songs. I think the last Marillion convention saw that change though.

If you like the current Marillion lineup - then why not, eh? But if you don't then seeing today's Marillion perform those iconic songs is never really going to sit well.
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Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:21 pm

Definitely know where Lauri and Sussexsaint and John are coming from.

IMHO its all down to the lyrics.

I have tried on a few occassions and including having Seasons End, to listen to H Marillion, but nothing there is no buzz, no closeness, and very little of which I can relate to in terms of these and my personal life.
H Marillion does none of these things for me, but with all due respect to them, Forumites and people who like them, there is no question they are Great Musicians in their own right.

Where as with Fish-era Marillion and Fish, it Is all very deep and personal, which has had a profound effect on me since i was 14-15, but not only me, but i think each individual human being as we are, can relate to his lyrics in some way or other, "A Mirror Image of our Lives". Maybe I am too deep and Personal, maybe thats why i can relate to one and not the other ? Everyone of us is different in our own way.
As I said before Fish-era Marillion and Fish's music has and still does have a pround effect on me, " Brothers without being Brothers" Is the highest attribute I can Pay Fish and Marillion for the intamcy of his/there music and what it means to people the world over.
Fish/Marillion you have opened your heart/s to us on many occaisions, and for that I am eternally gratefull.

Love, Live, Laughter and stay alive!

Slainte!
Thanked: 6

Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:31 pm

Spot on Rab, beautifully put. This music, like no other, is part of me. And it feels like no other in the way it seems to talk to you on a one to one rather than 'stadium rock'. So hearing Fish's lyrics from another's lips just doesn't feel right.

Actually as John said above, yes the H marillion script is a carbon copy but to be honest for that reason it feels sterile and dead! any subsequent fish rendering is new and alive and vibrant. And that is the entire point of what I was dribbling on about.

Glad it's not just me.

Will have to start a less deep thread sometime :lol:

Right see if ican find my jelly moulds, my wife has been 'tidying'

Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:37 pm

I know where you are coming from, but even though I don't follow H-era Marillion, those early songs are as much Marillion's as they are Fish's. They have every right to play them. Possibly more so than Fish's current band has the right to. - I agree. To my ears, Fish's lyrics will never sound 'right' unless sung by Fish himself, and if I ever come across vids of H singing Sugar Mice or whatever on YouTube, I usually have to switch off pretty quickly.

Current-day Marillion leaves me cold, or at least what I've heard from them post Season's End, but you have to respect the fact that they had a huge hand in shaping the soundtrack to our youth. - So yes, they still have the right to play the music they penned,.....but thankfully, we all have the choice of listening to either or both of two versions nowadays! ;) :D
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Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:08 pm

Interesting points rab...as always!

When marill were big in the 80s i wasn't a fan,in fact i could'nt stand them...

Then in 94 a fellow work colleague lent me a few albums by the h era marill and then cas and misplaced,first of all i fell in
love with the h era albums brave/holidays in eden and seasons end..the albums spoke to me.

Shortly after that cas and misplaced started to bite,at the time i was living in edinburgh and i picked up script and fugazi 2nd hand
on cassette from the flea market behind waverley station..fugazi hit the spot but script not so much(still to this day).

As for fish's solo career,i didn't come on board until sunsets on empire...i was at a marill gig in the garage seeing the band on their strange
engine tour were a fan told me to check out the new fish album..duty called and i purchased said album from goldrush records in perth(i was
studying music there).

Slowly i got into the fish solo material and continued loving the h era...afraid of sunlight blew my mind big time :lol:

After strange engine the quality began to dip for me,radiation and dot com followed by anorak..patchy!
Marbles has some great moments but so overrated imo,i enjoyed somewhere else and loved happiness is the road..

Then came sounds....feck me,what a dull album(piss poor)..imo.

All in all,i'm on the fish side of things and prefer when the big man plays the emi material.

Heres to the next gig in glasgow with the company...whisky o'clock :P
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Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:16 pm

[quote="arcademannequin"] I ever come across vids of H singing Sugar Mice or whatever on YouTube, I usually have to switch off pretty quickly.



mate. I completely agree they have every right :D but it's the point you state above that I was making , it surprised me but the feeling was pretty strong.

Re: Upset by Marillion playing what are essentially Fish son

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:20 pm

sussexsaint wrote:
arcademannequin wrote: I ever come across vids of H singing Sugar Mice or whatever on YouTube, I usually have to switch off pretty quickly.



mate. I completely agree they have every right :D but it's the point you state above that I was making , it surprised me but the feeling was pretty strong.


I know! I was agreeing with you, but it just came across in a different way! ;) :)

They have a right to,.......but I don't want to listen to it! ;) :lol:
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