And things that Fish always wanted to answer!

The Jonathan Mover Interview

Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:26 am

I read an interview on Jonathan Mover where he talked briefly about his time with Marillion writing for the LP Fugazi:

http://www.jonathanmover.com/magazines/ ... rummer.htm

Marillion was Jonathan's first foray into the all-too-precarious world of the music industry. He explains: "The day after the audition, I flew to Germany with them to do a live recording - I didn't know any of the material, I just went for it - and flew back to England, then on to Wales, where we started writing and recording the next album, Fugazy (sic). I'm not on the record because I was in the band for the writing and pre-recording stages only. Anyway, we were writing the material together, but there was a serious personality clash between the lead singer and myself. That was my first eye-opening experience in dealing with a fragile ego. At the time, I didn't know how to handle it, and I was saying, 'What's the deal? How come you're acting like a baby?' I know better now how to deal with that, and it was a very good learning experience for me. At the time, I was this hard-headed wise guy who was cool about everything except working with immature people who have fragile egos. We eventually all decided that it was better if we didn't work together, so I went back to the States."

Unfortunately, the break was not a clean one, due to royalties. "I co-wrote their first Top-20 single, 'Punch And Judy,' as well as another single of theirs," he says. "I was completely green when it came to publishing rights and royalties. I had written the songs with them, went back home expecting them to be honest, and the next thing I knew, they had a hit single and I had an empty pocket. I got screwed out of a lot of money, but I suppose that everybody has got to go through that at one point or another. Marillion left a bad taste in my mouth as far as the music business went. One minute I thought I had my foot in the door, and the next thing I knew I was back in Boston wondering if I was going to have to go back to selling tuxedoes, which I had done briefly one summer... Marillion had stiffed me, people had stolen equipment from me, or hadn't paid me...but I wasn't going to let those things change me. I have always tried to be a really nice guy, to always try to go for the things I want to go for without stepping on anybody..."
"Students often ask me at clinics about how to handle it when those kinds of things happen," he elaborates, "and I have one piece of advice for them. I'm not sure who said it, but somebody did say that this business has a tendency to weed out the weaklings. If you're not strong enough to endure the hardships, then you're not meant to be in it."


As I read further it seems as though Mover was never much of a band guy.

Still, I wouldn't mind hearing your views on this!

Did you really "act like a baby"?

Did Marillion screw him over like he claims?

Also, I was only aware that he helped write Punch & Judy. What was the other single he claims he worked on?

(Do you know what would be awesome?! A Fish Text-To-Speech converter! I have been reading a few of your replies to questions in this forum while also listening using the standard "American accent guy" and I suppose I just had an oddball idea!)

Cheers!

Re: Things you always wanted to ask Fish

Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:46 pm

Lord wrote:I read an interview on Jonathan Mover where he talked briefly about his time with Marillion writing for the LP Fugazi:

http://www.jonathanmover.com/magazines/ ... rummer.htm

Marillion was Jonathan's first foray into the all-too-precarious world of the music industry. He explains: "The day after the audition, I flew to Germany with them to do a live recording - I didn't know any of the material, I just went for it - and flew back to England, then on to Wales, where we started writing and recording the next album, Fugazy (sic). I'm not on the record because I was in the band for the writing and pre-recording stages only. Anyway, we were writing the material together, but there was a serious personality clash between the lead singer and myself. That was my first eye-opening experience in dealing with a fragile ego. At the time, I didn't know how to handle it, and I was saying, 'What's the deal? How come you're acting like a baby?' I know better now how to deal with that, and it was a very good learning experience for me. At the time, I was this hard-headed wise guy who was cool about everything except working with immature people who have fragile egos. We eventually all decided that it was better if we didn't work together, so I went back to the States."

Unfortunately, the break was not a clean one, due to royalties. "I co-wrote their first Top-20 single, 'Punch And Judy,' as well as another single of theirs," he says. "I was completely green when it came to publishing rights and royalties. I had written the songs with them, went back home expecting them to be honest, and the next thing I knew, they had a hit single and I had an empty pocket. I got screwed out of a lot of money, but I suppose that everybody has got to go through that at one point or another. Marillion left a bad taste in my mouth as far as the music business went. One minute I thought I had my foot in the door, and the next thing I knew I was back in Boston wondering if I was going to have to go back to selling tuxedoes, which I had done briefly one summer... Marillion had stiffed me, people had stolen equipment from me, or hadn't paid me...but I wasn't going to let those things change me. I have always tried to be a really nice guy, to always try to go for the things I want to go for without stepping on anybody..."
"Students often ask me at clinics about how to handle it when those kinds of things happen," he elaborates, "and I have one piece of advice for them. I'm not sure who said it, but somebody did say that this business has a tendency to weed out the weaklings. If you're not strong enough to endure the hardships, then you're not meant to be in it."


As I read further it seems as though Mover was never much of a band guy.

Still, I wouldn't mind hearing your views on this!

Did you really "act like a baby"?

Did Marillion screw him over like he claims?

Also, I was only aware that he helped write Punch & Judy. What was the other single he claims he worked on?

(Do you know what would be awesome?! A Fish Text-To-Speech converter! I have been reading a few of your replies to questions in this forum while also listening using the standard "American accent guy" and I suppose I just had an oddball idea!)

Cheers!




Well that was an eye opening interview :-)

Jonathan Mover - what can I say except that I thought he was a prick then and an even bigger prick after that interview.

To put the record straight Marillion did not rip him off. He was paid for more than he deserved and I personally objected to his share in "Punch and Judy" , the only song he was involved in a semblance of writing. I asked him to play the Bo Diddley drum rhythm and he elaborated on it. The lyric was written before the music. It suggested the drum part. He got 20% for that! (Garden Party was no.16 btw, P and J 19)

No one as far as I know, or could even believe, stole any of his equipment.

I didn't like him from the start, believed he wasn't right for the band and said so to the band at the time. I went with the democratic vote for as long as I could stomach.

He auditioned and rehearsed with us for one gig during his tenure.

At Monmouth studios after only a couple of weeks I had enough of his arrogance and whining and went out my way to make his life a misery ( throwing cherry bombs in his bathroom in the morning! ) Not my proudest moment but it achieved an end.

As a drummer he thought the sun shone out of his ass, talked incessantly about drums every waking moment and bored me to tears,had lots of technical ability but for me didn't play "with " the band, had an ego the size of a small planet (that obviously made mine look fragile) and a grating personality all round. If he had had the balls to ask me "why was I behaving like a baby " to my face I would have decked him.

It was the only time I said to the band "him or me". We brought in Ian Mosely. Correct decision. Nuff said!

Years later I was told by Pete Frame, a famous journalist and friend of mine, that Mover had said during an interview with him that he was thrown out the band because he was Jewish and I was anti Semitic. Pete knew it was a lie and played me the recording where Mover , thinking he had put his finger over the inbuilt microphone went on to decry me. I met Mover backstage at a Mike Oldfield gig where he was playing. I confronted him in an empty dressing room and got an apology after coming close to putting him up against a wall. I still have the recording Pete gave me somewhere.

He didn't write anything else on the album. Didn't record with us apart from the Baunataal gig in Germany for a radio broadcast. He was a drummer.

He was fired from the band way before we even went near a recording studio.

I talked to Simon Phillips who Mover made out to be a great friend and he had less than pleasant things to say about him as well.

I had heard that Mover had a number of legal run ins with bands he has been in and I have never met anyone from any of those bands that had a good word for him.

In my opinion he was arrogant, greedy and totally two faced. His contribution to Marillion was below negligible and I was glad to see the back of him.

I hope that answers your question.
Thanked: 9

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:50 am

“Jonathan Mover left me cold, but the musicians loved him because he was super-technical. I felt I was being railroaded. All he could talk about was drums, and he didn’t fit in to the band’s social element.”

http://www.daveling.co.uk/docfish.htm

However, later in the interview…

"I honestly think that if the ‘Vigil…’ album had been a Marillion album it would’ve been even bigger. But EMI asked me to delay it because they wanted Marillion’s album [‘Seasons End’] out first. They said they’d give it full promotion, da da da. So my album didn’t come out till January ’90, and three years is a long time. It was difficult to pull the fans back in again. It was a lot easier for Marillion, because they had the name and the EMI press people always focussed on them."

In fairness, for the sake of balance, as a former music journo I do honestly recall that the EMI press team on the Vigil tour were extremely unhappy with Fish's behaviour too, so perhaps that may explain why 'EMI press people always focussed' on Marillion'!

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Sun May 05, 2013 5:06 pm

one of my big gripes at the time was that after setting up the Vigil album practically the entire international department at EMI was changed around just before the release and I got caught in the changeover,
it didn't help either that there were "contractual issues" with the company that resulted in me leaving EMI in 91.

The section "later in the interview" is actually out of context as the 2 statements are not related,

the quote regarding "even bigger" referred to the fact that if we had put out "Vigil" as a Marillion album ( obviously with Seasons End material included) it would have , IMHO been a more successful album.

The 3 year wait was very relevant and there was a conscious decision to hold mine back and let the boys out the gates first. It was tough sitting on the album for over 6 months.

I don't recall anyone from the press dept at EMI UK being "extremely unhappy" with my behavior?. My press officer was Brian Munns , a close personal friend who I was in contact with right up to his sad death in 91.

EMI were basically unhappy I had left the band and found the interviews we were both giving at the time awkward to handle as there was a lot of bitching as you'd expect after a divorce :-)

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Sun May 05, 2013 5:13 pm

interesting to read that interview and remembering my mindset at the time. The things we say :-)
Thanked: 1

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Tue May 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Apologies! Lord only knows why I linked those two things in that hamfisted manner.. I suppose it was to do with the views of people about other people… (hastily backpeddles).

As far as the “difficult” thing- that comes from a conversation I had when I met up with two press people at EMI sometime in 1990 or 1991 as I recall. No big deal, and certainly not anything I bothered to write about at the time (and who would have cared anyway!), just more of a case that it’s funny what sticks in mind your mind and what you remember regarding industry “gossip” from back in the day!

Sorry it wasn’t meant to cause trouble! Honestly - Just an old memory that struck me from back in the day!
Thanked: 1

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:23 pm

markcurtis wrote:Apologies! Lord only knows why I linked those two things in that hamfisted manner.. I suppose it was to do with the views of people about other people… (hastily backpeddles).

As far as the “difficult” thing- that comes from a conversation I had when I met up with two press people at EMI sometime in 1990 or 1991 as I recall. No big deal, and certainly not anything I bothered to write about at the time (and who would have cared anyway!), just more of a case that it’s funny what sticks in mind your mind and what you remember regarding industry “gossip” from back in the day!

Sorry it wasn’t meant to cause trouble! Honestly - Just an old memory that struck me from back in the day!



Forgot to add that in the late Summer of 1990 I took issued an action against EMI over my contract and got my ass badly kicked in a settlement after I ran out of money to fund legal costs. That may have had something to do with me being "Difficult" in some people's eyes! :-)

Re: The Jonathan Mover Interview

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:37 am

Thanks for the reply,

Oddly, when searching for something else in my 'pretentious music journalist archives' from back in the day (located in my loft) – I came across my old notes from back in the day – the whining from EMI took place in November 1989…would that have been at the start of any 'rumblings' that led to the legal action in the Summer of 1990? :-)

Apologies for suggesting it was 1990/1991 – as my notes revealed – I’d confused this with another completely different meeting with EMI - at Manchester Square with Keith Wozencroft (who of course was nothing to do with their press office!!!) about three or four bands of interest to him – one he’d just signed - Radiohead (yes really!! – I’ll keep that particular anecdote for my memoirs!) and another who he was about to sign – who’s name escapes me – though I recall saying to him that I thought they sounded like the Wonder Stuff – and I remember him saying “Yeah, but not enough for me to worry about” – which I think, as a naïve young music journo kid - was the definative end of any starry-eyed, romantic view I was still hanging on to (!) about how 'the industry' really 'was' as bands approached the big time!! Though in fairness, I recall was hugely impressed by Mr Wozencroft as a person and an A&R professional - even to this day – and certainly despite the whole major lable thing - I've always thought he loved music and the bands with a passion of any 'true fan' – a hugely charismatic and knowledgeable chap – did you ever cross paths with him?

Anyway, I digress, so that aside – back to Fish/Marillion related issues - I also found (in the loft) some never published, (and even if I do say so myself!) publication quality mono photos of you on stage at the Sea Cadet Hall Cambridge from 1982 - a pic of you rehearsing onstage in the afternoon (?) – and another with the rest of Marillion (as was) - enjoying a pint backstage (that gig is widely - and incorrectly! - listed on various gig listing as being at the Sound Cellar, Cambridge on 14 August 1982) - which I think I took having been taken along by a mate of my older brother - I think to see your sound check – I would have only been 13 at the time! If you ever are looking to publish a biography with exclusive pics – let me know!

Here’s a pic someone else took of the gig poster (peeling - on the left)–does that gig bring back any memories?

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/179/38788 ... z.jpg?zz=1

Anyhew – sorry to bang on! Halcyon days and all that….

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